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Veteran preference, what if its not given?

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  • #61
    123456789999
    Last edited by ryker; 03-29-2012, 09:06 AM.
    Any views or opinions presented by this prenomen are solely those of a burlesque author and do not necessarily represent those of a LEA or caementum couturier.

    nom de plume

    This is the internet- take all information with a grain of salt. Such could be valid and true or could be typed just for playing devils advocate.

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    • #62
      Greenline thanks for the solid advice.
      Last edited by ryker; 03-29-2012, 09:06 AM.
      Any views or opinions presented by this prenomen are solely those of a burlesque author and do not necessarily represent those of a LEA or caementum couturier.

      nom de plume

      This is the internet- take all information with a grain of salt. Such could be valid and true or could be typed just for playing devils advocate.

      Comment


      • #63
        automated electronic response of this position has been filed.
        Last edited by ryker; 03-29-2012, 09:06 AM.
        Any views or opinions presented by this prenomen are solely those of a burlesque author and do not necessarily represent those of a LEA or caementum couturier.

        nom de plume

        This is the internet- take all information with a grain of salt. Such could be valid and true or could be typed just for playing devils advocate.

        Comment


        • #64
          My concern was/is that the legal requirement to give a veteran an advantage was not given.
          If you truly feel that was the case, have you investigated (or does your agency even have) any kind of grievance process? Gotta be careful with that, for obvious reasons, but it's a route you could take. Might be worth running yourscenario past an attorney and see what he/she thinks.

          Failing that, if the agency isn't following the law, I'd look for a different agency.
          "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margaret's not coming?"

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          • #65
            Originally posted by ryker View Post
            If you read this thread you would know that BOTH people have near exact same time as a LEO.
            Yes I have read YOUR thread. We know it's all about you vs. this non vet.

            Again. I have never seen a policy on what moves can and can't be used. Is their a flow chart on defensive tactics? Can I do a front push kick as I move to the rear to avoid injury or must I throw a haymaker? Can I perry a jab or must I block a jab?

            Then it seems as though your agency, without knowing may have an outdated policy, unless it's use whatever force necessary? Their may not be a flow chart, but their is Use of Force, which I hope you have heard about.



            Nobody forced you to log into the internet, this website or this thread. You can speculate about how a person will handle calls. Which is why the LE community has typical standards of not hiring felons or person with a bad driving record. Past actions can be used to predict future actions. A person who has spent a few hundred hours of DT training is probably going to be less stressed on a call where a non-trained person might wig out. Their is no 100% in either case but generalities is what the hiring process is about.

            Again, you are speculating on how a person will handle a call for service. Who knows where your breaking point would be, even though you are a LEO? Maybe you will get a call one day that will haunt you and force you to quit or retire or you go to draw your weapon and can't. No one can predict how one will act on a call. Who cares if one has spent numerous hours at the gym or performing DT. As I stated, even the best soldiers have frozen in combat situations. So can a LEO. Nothing was ever mentioned about their driving record.
            In this case the veteran was not given the same opportunity as the non-vet. Then file something with that agency. You logged onto the internet to grip and ask questions. Some you like, others you won't accept a solid answer. Maybe you will have luck with the agency that turned you down?

            I am amazed at how many of you guys dislike veterans. Guess its the same reason why most people don't like cops. Deep down they wish they would or could have done it.
            And I have done both. Never said anything to reflect negatively on vets, You however seem to think that a vet should have pref. over anyone else it seems. Remember, this is your thread.
            Last edited by irishlad2nv; 01-13-2010, 12:13 PM.
            "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

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            • #66
              Thanks for the good replies and Thoughtful insight.
              Last edited by ryker; 03-29-2012, 09:07 AM.
              Any views or opinions presented by this prenomen are solely those of a burlesque author and do not necessarily represent those of a LEA or caementum couturier.

              nom de plume

              This is the internet- take all information with a grain of salt. Such could be valid and true or could be typed just for playing devils advocate.

              Comment


              • #67
                How does veterns preference work at the agency you applied? Everywhere I have ever been spelled it out in the hiring announcement. Here is how it works at 99% of the announcements I have read. In addition, this is how it works where I am.

                An applicant takes a written test and it is scored.
                The applicant then completes the interview and it is scored.
                The applicant takes a pass/fail PT test. Every PT test I took was scored as pass/fail.

                If the applicant is a vet, ten points are added to the combined score of the written and interview.

                In these cases the vet was still given vet preference "points." I do not know of veterans being chosen over others outright, but they do get preference points.
                Last edited by Buckfan; 01-13-2010, 02:07 PM.

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                • #68
                  I don't believe this thread is still alive.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by ryker View Post
                    The law requires vets be given preference. I fully understand that many don't agree with it. I too don't think it's fair. Seams that this agency values an extra extra 2 years of classroom over 6years of leadership role in the military, in which case it might be better for the vet to seek an agency that places a value on his skills.
                    Which is proabably valid since that hiring agency is a campus that might look down on a two year degree.

                    Thanks for the good replies and Thoughtful insight.
                    Refer to Buckfan's post. i dont think you understand how "preference" is determined. having a degree, police officer certification, and living in the community of the agency can also get you a "preference".
                    I don't have to be careful. I got a gun.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by ryker View Post
                      L1, the process for this agency that I am aware of is. Complete paperwork, get a medical screening, run the physical test. Then perhaps oral boards or testing. Not sure at what point the background, references or paperwork is reviewed. Only update that was given was the automated electronic response of this position has been filed.
                      First, I have serious questions about the accuracy of the hiring process you have described. Nonetheless, let's go with your version.

                      Based on the process you have described, Veteran's preference is no longer an issue.

                      The American's with Disabilities Act (ADA) is a Federal law that governs hiring practices in both government and private employment. Among other things, it says that en employer may not require a medical examination except in connection with a bona fide offer of employment. i.e., You are offered employment subject to your successfully passing a medical exam.

                      If you were sent for a medical exam and then not hired, either:

                      1. You failed the medical, or

                      2. You passed the medical and your rights were violated under ADA in that you were not hired. If that is the case, the employer is subject to an ADA/EEO lawsuit if you choose to pursue one.

                      Because people sent for a medical must, under ADA, be hired if they pass, most agencies make the effort to first screen applicants through a written and an oral exam process, to determine if they are capable of performing the duties of the job. This is why I have to seriously question the hiring process you describe, where the medical exam is the first step. Using that process, the agency in question would be legally obligated to hire everyone who passed the medical, irrespective of ability, background, hidden felony coviction, etc. Again, I have to call BS on this one.
                      Last edited by L-1; 01-14-2010, 09:20 PM.
                      Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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                      • #71
                        Ryker,

                        Everybody on this forum I am sure has been in your position before with hiring. Maybe not with the exact same life experience, education, or military experience but we have all been there. Where some else was pick and you were not. I was in a position several times where the vet was picked over me. Funny story I was #3 on one list with 2 vets ahead of me. Both were hired because of that wonderful preference that you get "by law" as you like to so often put. In that same year both were fired and that dept called me up asking if I wanted the job still.

                        Just because you think you are mr. wonderful does not mean that you are. Policing is different everywhere. City is different from local, state is different than college. Person A which I assume is you with all of that experience and training means absolutely nothing to me if I am hiring for a college campus position. Yes it shows some stuff but how does that make me believe that you will be a good college police officer. Wow you are a marksman. Can you even talk to a college kid? Can you give a presentation to college girls about sexual assault? Could you give a seminar on underage drinking? Campus officers do that. You dont seem like the type that would.

                        Police work isnt butt kicking and taking names 24/7. The person probably saw what you were bringing to the table. Impressive? Yes. A person I would want on a college campus? No sorry.
                        Last edited by Blue Breed; 01-14-2010, 08:11 PM.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ryker View Post
                          The law requires vets be given preference. I fully understand that many don't agree with it. I too don't think it's fair. Seams that this agency values an extra extra 2 years of classroom over 6years of leadership role in the military, in which case it might be better for the vet to seek an agency that places a value on his skills.
                          Which is proabably valid since that hiring agency is a campus that might look down on a two year degree.

                          Thanks for the good replies and Thoughtful insight.
                          i used to work for the State of Kansas. Here is what they say about veterans preference.

                          Am I Guaranteed the Job?
                          Qualified veterans are guaranteed an interview and to be considered for a position for which they apply and meet the qualifications for the position but are not guaranteed to be hired for the job.
                          So at least here in Kansas, yes you will get an interview, but you are not guaranteed a job, and you aren't even given any extra points.
                          What is Perseverance?
                          -Perseverance is commitment, hard work, patience, endurance.
                          -Perseverance is being able to bear difficulties calmly and without complaint.
                          -PERSEVERANCE IS TRYING AGAIN AND AGAIN.


                          BOP - BPA - ICE

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                          • #73
                            Refer to Buckfan's post. i dont think you understand how "preference" is determined. having a degree, police officer certification, and living in the community of the agency can also get you a "preference".
                            This is a good point. A veteran's preference is supposed to be a feather in your cap, but not a trump card to be hired over someone who is a better fit or might be more qualified for the job.
                            "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margaret's not coming?"

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