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  • #16
    I don't have any experience working fish and wildlife enforcement/investigations. My background is drugs and general crime investigations. So I guess the question is do I have a shot? Is there anyone else applying with no prior experience in this field?
    NOAA's chief of law enforcement was a local police chief prior to jumping straight to the Feds/NOAA-OLE. What does that tell you? IMO, a desire to enforce the laws that NOAA enforces is far more important than direct experience in doing the same. That and a knowledge of the mechanics of conducting a criminal investigation.
    "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margaret's not coming?"

    Comment


    • #17
      So if you're a veteran with pref you are no longer bound by the 37 cut off? When did this happen? Do you have to get a waiver? I heard talk of this a while back but didn't know it was in affect.

      I threw my name in for this announcement, we'll see what happens.

      Comment


      • #18
        Preference-Eligible Veterans

        Not all agencies are on board with the change, as they have not been sue and lost.

        This is to be automatic, but I placed it both in my resume and my KSA answers. To document it, so if they say I am age out, I will file with Merit System Protection Board.

        Most OIG are on board, especially the agencies that use Bureau of public debt. As they have been sued and lost, lost and then lost again.

        This all came out of Isabella v. Department of State (Docket No. AT-3443-05-0550-B-1 / AT-0330-05-409-B-1). Which found that age was not material to the job, and there for must be waived under veterans preference rules “all non material requirements must be waived”.

        What got the judge to go the way of the veteran was the discretion to grant waivers by agency chiefs. Since they had the power to grant waivers, it must not be material to the job.

        The other hurtle shot down was the mandatory retirement age of 57, because the law actually states “mandatory retirement at 57, or at 20 years of credible law enforcement time”.

        HUD OIG latest announcement includes the following statement:
        C. Special Requirements:
        1. The date immediately preceding an individual's 37th birthday is the maximum entry age for original appointment to a position within the OIG as a law enforcement officer. Please Note: a) This requirement does not apply to preference-eligible veterans; b) An individual who is 37 years of age or older may be reemployed as a law enforcement officer in the OIG if the individual has had prior coverage under the special law enforcement retirement plan.
        "From now until the end of the world, we and it shall be remembered. We few, we Band of Brothers. For he who sheds his blood with me shall be my brother." - William Shakespeare ("King Henry V")

        Comment


        • #19
          Training Time?

          How much more training does NOAA have to complete after the basic CI school at FLETC? And where is the additional training? I would assume they are one of the more laid back depts and won't have you PTing at 0 dark 30?? Any insight would be appreciated.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by widgeon08 View Post
            How much more training does NOAA have to complete after the basic CI school at FLETC? And where is the additional training? I would assume they are one of the more laid back depts and won't have you PTing at 0 dark 30?? Any insight would be appreciated.
            This site will answer your question:

            http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ole/about/training.html

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Scout0315 View Post
              Not all agencies are on board with the change, as they have not been sue and lost.

              This is to be automatic, but I placed it both in my resume and my KSA answers. To document it, so if they say I am age out, I will file with Merit System Protection Board.

              Most OIG are on board, especially the agencies that use Bureau of public debt. As they have been sued and lost, lost and then lost again.

              This all came out of Isabella v. Department of State (Docket No. AT-3443-05-0550-B-1 / AT-0330-05-409-B-1). Which found that age was not material to the job, and there for must be waived under veterans preference rules “all non material requirements must be waived”.

              What got the judge to go the way of the veteran was the discretion to grant waivers by agency chiefs. Since they had the power to grant waivers, it must not be material to the job.

              The other hurtle shot down was the mandatory retirement age of 57, because the law actually states “mandatory retirement at 57, or at 20 years of credible law enforcement time”.

              HUD OIG latest announcement includes the following statement:
              C. Special Requirements:
              1. The date immediately preceding an individual's 37th birthday is the maximum entry age for original appointment to a position within the OIG as a law enforcement officer. Please Note: a) This requirement does not apply to preference-eligible veterans; b) An individual who is 37 years of age or older may be reemployed as a law enforcement officer in the OIG if the individual has had prior coverage under the special law enforcement retirement plan.
              Scout,

              I see what you're saying, but bottom line is you would need to get an age waiver in these cases which are far and few. Whether they would say or not that it's because you're too old.....who knows. There are too many applicants out there that are below the age requirement. You need to retire by the time you're 57 with at least 20 years on. Now I will say that you have more than the basic requirements. But at this point it would put you over the age requirement set forth by OPM. I wish you the best of luck and hop it works out for you. If anyone deserves these opportunities, it's the veterans that served their country. Again, good luck. I'd also hold off with saying that you'll go to the Merit System Protection Board if they don't select you. Just my opinion.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Scout0315 View Post
                Not all agencies are on board with the change, as they have not been sue and lost.

                This is to be automatic, but I placed it both in my resume and my KSA answers. To document it, so if they say I am age out, I will file with Merit System Protection Board.

                Most OIG are on board, especially the agencies that use Bureau of public debt. As they have been sued and lost, lost and then lost again.

                This all came out of Isabella v. Department of State (Docket No. AT-3443-05-0550-B-1 / AT-0330-05-409-B-1). Which found that age was not material to the job, and there for must be waived under veterans preference rules “all non material requirements must be waived”.

                What got the judge to go the way of the veteran was the discretion to grant waivers by agency chiefs. Since they had the power to grant waivers, it must not be material to the job.

                The other hurtle shot down was the mandatory retirement age of 57, because the law actually states “mandatory retirement at 57, or at 20 years of credible law enforcement time”.

                HUD OIG latest announcement includes the following statement:
                C. Special Requirements:
                1. The date immediately preceding an individual's 37th birthday is the maximum entry age for original appointment to a position within the OIG as a law enforcement officer. Please Note: a) This requirement does not apply to preference-eligible veterans; b) An individual who is 37 years of age or older may be reemployed as a law enforcement officer in the OIG if the individual has had prior coverage under the special law enforcement retirement plan.
                does this include those that qualify under VEOA also?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Age Waiver for Veterans Preference Eligible

                  If you are a veteran preference individual as defined by

                  TITLE 5 > PART III > Subpart A > CHAPTER 21 > § 2108
                  § 2108. Veteran; disabled veteran; preference eligible
                  For the purpose of this title–
                  (1) “veteran” means an individual who–
                  (A) served on active duty in the armed forces during a war, in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge has been authorized, or during the period beginning April 28, 1952, and ending July 1, 1955;
                  (B) served on active duty as defined by section 101 (21) of title 38 at any time in the armed forces for a period of more than 180 consecutive days any part of which occurred after January 31, 1955, and before October 15, 1976, not including service under section 12103 (d) of title 10 pursuant to an enlistment in the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard or as a Reserve for service in the Army Reserve, Navy Reserve, Air Force Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, or Coast Guard Reserve;
                  (C) served on active duty as defined by section 101 (21) of title 38 in the armed forces during the period beginning on August 2, 1990, and ending on January 2, 1992; or
                  (D) served on active duty as defined by section 101 (21) of title 38 at any time in the armed forces for a period of more than 180 consecutive days any part of which occurred during the period beginning on September 11, 2001, and ending on the date prescribed by Presidential proclamation or by law as the last date of Operation Iraqi Freedom;
                  and who has been discharged or released from active duty in the armed forces under honorable conditions;
                  (2) “disabled veteran” means an individual who has served on active duty in the armed forces, has been separated there from under honorable conditions, and has established the present existence of a service-connected disability or is receiving compensation, disability retirement benefits, or pension because of a public statute administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs or a military department;
                  (3) “preference eligible” means, except as provided in paragraph (4) of this section—
                  (A) a veteran as defined by paragraph (1)(A) of this section;
                  (B) a veteran as defined by paragraph (1)(B), (C), or (D) of this section;
                  (C) a disabled veteran;
                  (D) the unmarried widow or widower of a veteran as defined by paragraph (1)(A) of this section;
                  (E) the wife or husband of a service-connected disabled veteran if the veteran has been unable to qualify for any appointment in the civil service or in the government of the District of Columbia;
                  (F) the mother of an individual who lost his life under honorable conditions while serving in the armed forces during a period named by paragraph (1)(A) of this section, if—
                  (i) her husband is totally and permanently disabled;
                  (ii) she is widowed, divorced, or separated from the father and has not remarried; or
                  (iii) she has remarried but is widowed, divorced, or legally separated from her husband when preference is claimed; and
                  (G) the mother of a service-connected permanently and totally disabled veteran, if—
                  (i) her husband is totally and permanently disabled;
                  (ii) she is widowed, divorced, or separated from the father and has not remarried; or
                  (iii) she has remarried but is widowed, divorced, or legally separated from her husband when preference is claimed;
                  but does not include applicants for, or members of, the Senior Executive Service, the Defense Intelligence Senior Executive Service, the Senior Cryptologic Executive Service, or the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Drug Enforcement Administration Senior Executive Service;
                  (4) except for the purposes of chapters 43 and 75 of this title, “preference eligible” does not include a retired member of the armed forces unless—
                  (A) the individual is a disabled veteran; or
                  (B) the individual retired below the rank of major or its equivalent; and
                  (5) “retired member of the armed forces” means a member or former member of the armed forces who is entitled, under statute, to retired, retirement, or retainer pay on account of service as a member.


                  Then you are entitled to relief of the maximum age limitation of 37 years pursuant to title 5 U.S.C. section 3312 preference eligible’s; physical qualifications; waiver.



                  TITLE 5 > PART III > Subpart B > CHAPTER 33 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 3312
                  § 3312. Preference eligibles; physical qualifications; waiver

                  (a) In determining qualifications of a preference eligible for examination for, appointment in, or reinstatement in the competitive service, the Office of Personnel Management or other examining agency shall waive—
                  (1) requirements as to age, height, and weight, unless the requirement is essential to the performance of the duties of the position;


                  Isabella v. Department of State (Docket No. AT-3443-05-0550-B-1 / AT-0330-05-409-B-1). The panel of judges found that age was not material to the job of criminal investigator, and there for must be waived under veterans preference rules “all non material requirements must be waived”.

                  This applies to VEOA, VRA, and any other special hiring catagory.
                  "From now until the end of the world, we and it shall be remembered. We few, we Band of Brothers. For he who sheds his blood with me shall be my brother." - William Shakespeare ("King Henry V")

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    DEU (0027) & MAP (0035) Announcements

                    Can anyone offer any insight to the recent announcement and selection process for NOAA Criminal Investigators?

                    Why are there suddenly so many vacancies? New funding?

                    If you apply to multiple cities and make it to the interview process, will you interview with each specific field office?

                    Are the Alaska PODs determined to be "hard to fill" posts?

                    How likely is it to move to other cities within the agency without going into management after X number of years at a certain post?

                    Do you expect NOAA to make a future announcement for their other field offices?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Email the NOAA POC

                      Originally posted by brownmi View Post
                      Can anyone offer any insight to the recent announcement and selection process for NOAA Criminal Investigators?

                      Why are there suddenly so many vacancies? New funding?

                      If you apply to multiple cities and make it to the interview process, will you interview with each specific field office?

                      Are the Alaska PODs determined to be "hard to fill" posts?

                      How likely is it to move to other cities within the agency without going into management after X number of years at a certain post?

                      Do you expect NOAA to make a future announcement for their other field offices?
                      The POC (Seattle FO) in the announcement answered my inquires same day. Would not answer how the interview process will work, I don’t think there that far along.

                      My impression (IMO) is they are going to see where the best candidates apply for. They have X budget for X agents. No agenda or target staffing per office. I have the impression they would prefer experienced 1811 or state fisheries types. I am a civil fraud (CT/CI Army) guy; I think I have a chance, but not their first choice.

                      I applied for all the lower 48, but want Seattle.

                      The offices in the announcement relate to training abilities. NOAA has a FTO process they sound pretty strict on.

                      That being said all the agents that I have talk too, all work in the office they were hired for.

                      Very happy professionals.
                      "From now until the end of the world, we and it shall be remembered. We few, we Band of Brothers. For he who sheds his blood with me shall be my brother." - William Shakespeare ("King Henry V")

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I got most of my general questions answered from the POC but thought maybe any current NOAA 1811's, other 1811’s or LEOs that are familiar with the interworkings of the process could elaborate. The POC wasn't sure whether you would interview at each specific duty station to which you applied. You will be ranked for each duty station that you applied to though. The top 3 of the DEU will only be forwarded to the selecting official; however, all qualified applicants under MAP will be forwarded to the selecting official. The selecting officials have a deadline of mid June unless they seek an extension.

                        I’m applying for a few cities but my first choice is not NY even though I live here. Could that possibly hurt my chances of getting my choice POD? If I get offered a city that’s not my first choice, will there be the opportunity to transfer 3-5 years down the road?

                        What do you mean by “the offices in the announcement relate to training abilities?”

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Fto

                          Originally posted by brownmi View Post
                          What do you mean by “the offices in the announcement relate to training abilities?”
                          NOAA has a FT program that last 7 weeks. Its my understanding that the FTO are senior agents (GS-13/ pay band lv. 4) with at least 7 years at NOAA with the time availability/capacity to function as the FTO. IMO this reduces the FO that can support "New Agents" since smaller offices may not have the availability/capacity to support a structured FT Program."
                          "From now until the end of the world, we and it shall be remembered. We few, we Band of Brothers. For he who sheds his blood with me shall be my brother." - William Shakespeare ("King Henry V")

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Oh. So is the FOTP the only aspect that is not completed at FLETC?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dpd0779 View Post
                              I don't have any experience working fish and wildlife enforcement/investigations. My background is drugs and general crime investigations. So I guess the question is do I have a shot? Is there anyone else applying with no prior experience in this field?
                              I don't have any either. I do have experience investigating narcotics, bribery and financial criminal investigations so we'll see what are my chances. There's always a money aspect in every crime, right? Follow the money and you'll find the violations.
                              Last edited by brownmi; 04-09-2009, 05:22 PM. Reason: to elaboate answer

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Oh. So is the FOTP the only aspect that is not completed at FLETC?
                                Sometime after CITP, NOAA 1811's attend the agency's NET-Basic program, which is roughly a month long and covers NOAA-specific topics, laws enforced, things like that. NOAA 1811's also attend FLETC's Marine Law Enforcement Training Program, or "boat school", which is also a month long and is covered on FLETC's website.

                                Now, when a new NOAA 1811 completes these courses is the big question mark. It historically depended on when the agency had enough bodies to fill the courses or enough slots. For example, it has not been uncommon for some new agents to be on the job for up to 2 years before attending NET-Basic (which shows that it's arguably not a vital prerequisite for doing the work), mainly because it took that long for the agency to gather enough new bodies who hadn't been through it yet. You'll go to boat school whenever a slot opens up, usually 5 or 6 at a time, mixed in with other agencies. Fun course, but can be academically intensive.

                                NOAA's FTO program used to consist of one week at the regional HQ followed by three separate two-week stints with different FTO's. They used to try to send you to at least one session that was outside your region so you'd get a feel for what different regions do, but funding/timing doesn't always make that possible.

                                IMO, if you happen to be in NY, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll keep you there. Depends on your interest and what they have open. Once you come on board, NOAA transfers are not that plentiful because it's a fairly small agency. At one point, they had instituted a three-year minimum rule before transferring someone, but that may be dated info. If you want to better your chances for getting hired, select Alaska. There's quite a bit of turnover because not everyone can handle living there.
                                "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margaret's not coming?"

                                Comment

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