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Age 37 and Fed LE.

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  • Age 37 and Fed LE.

    Hi.
    This question may have been asked but I have a detail or two to add.

    I worked for a federal LE for 11 months and left for family issues. I moved to a state agency and it isn't working out as I'd hoped. I'll be 37 this coming October. I also have 13 months active duty military time (guard unit activated after 9/11).

    I'm a little unclear about whether or not I can return to a federal LE agency after I turn 37.

    any Agents have any insight on this issue?

    Thanks and stay safe.

  • #2
    If your prior federal job was covered under the 12d FERS Law Enforcement retirement then the only thing you can do is subtract the time you were covered from your age. In your case you would have to subtract 11 months from whatever age you are when you would get re-hired. In other words, you would have to get hired by a 12d covered position by age 37 years and 11 months (37 years, 11 months of age - 11 months of prior service = 37). For you, anything past 37 years, 11 months and 1 day would make you ineligible for hire because you would be over the maximum age of 37 by at least 1 day. You may have other options because there are a few Uniformed federal LE positions that are hiring up to age 40. Good luck.

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    • #3
      BOP or Border Patrol might get you in and stop the clock for you before Oct. Otherwise...it's as JimD said.

      Comment


      • #4
        BOP in a hard to fill location would be the quickest in hiring for federal LE. USBP is not doing the super fast hiring anymore. Go to the BOP website and see if they have the high need to fill locations listed. They are usually in California (Victorville comes to mind) and they are very poorly run from this former corrections officers point of view but they will stop the clock. Many before you have done the same thing. Get on with the BOP then start trying to get on where you really want to go. Good luck.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jimdvs View Post
          If your prior federal job was covered under the 12d FERS Law Enforcement retirement then the only thing you can do is subtract the time you were covered from your age. In your case you would have to subtract 11 months from whatever age you are when you would get re-hired. In other words, you would have to get hired by a 12d covered position by age 37 years and 11 months (37 years, 11 months of age - 11 months of prior service = 37). For you, anything past 37 years, 11 months and 1 day would make you ineligible for hire because you would be over the maximum age of 37 by at least 1 day.
          The above is correct according to current OPM rules/regulations.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ten08
            The Mint, FPS, the VA and any other agencies which are not on the LE Retirement System will have no problem with 37 or 40 or 45 as long as you can retire by 65. You can buy back your military time and take credit for your previous LE Time.
            What you are posting has nothing to do with his questions. He's asking if he can get back into a FLEO job with 6c retirement at his age not what agencies may take him at his current age.

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            • #7
              There is another thread on here about the age waiver for vets I'd read that also.
              But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

              For the intelectually challenged: If the government screws the people enough, it is the right and responsibility of the people to revolt and form a new government.

              Comment


              • #8
                Age Waiver for Veterans Preference Eligible

                If you are a veteran preference individual as defined by

                TITLE 5 > PART III > Subpart A > CHAPTER 21 > § 2108
                § 2108. Veteran; disabled veteran; preference eligible
                For the purpose of this title–
                (1) “veteran” means an individual who–
                (A) served on active duty in the armed forces during a war, in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge has been authorized, or during the period beginning April 28, 1952, and ending July 1, 1955;
                (B) served on active duty as defined by section 101 (21) of title 38 at any time in the armed forces for a period of more than 180 consecutive days any part of which occurred after January 31, 1955, and before October 15, 1976, not including service under section 12103 (d) of title 10 pursuant to an enlistment in the Army National Guard or the Air National Guard or as a Reserve for service in the Army Reserve, Navy Reserve, Air Force Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, or Coast Guard Reserve;
                (C) served on active duty as defined by section 101 (21) of title 38 in the armed forces during the period beginning on August 2, 1990, and ending on January 2, 1992; or
                (D) served on active duty as defined by section 101 (21) of title 38 at any time in the armed forces for a period of more than 180 consecutive days any part of which occurred during the period beginning on September 11, 2001, and ending on the date prescribed by Presidential proclamation or by law as the last date of Operation Iraqi Freedom;
                and who has been discharged or released from active duty in the armed forces under honorable conditions;
                (2) “disabled veteran” means an individual who has served on active duty in the armed forces, has been separated there from under honorable conditions, and has established the present existence of a service-connected disability or is receiving compensation, disability retirement benefits, or pension because of a public statute administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs or a military department;
                (3) “preference eligible” means, except as provided in paragraph (4) of this section—
                (A) a veteran as defined by paragraph (1)(A) of this section;
                (B) a veteran as defined by paragraph (1)(B), (C), or (D) of this section;
                (C) a disabled veteran;
                (D) the unmarried widow or widower of a veteran as defined by paragraph (1)(A) of this section;
                (E) the wife or husband of a service-connected disabled veteran if the veteran has been unable to qualify for any appointment in the civil service or in the government of the District of Columbia;
                (F) the mother of an individual who lost his life under honorable conditions while serving in the armed forces during a period named by paragraph (1)(A) of this section, if—
                (i) her husband is totally and permanently disabled;
                (ii) she is widowed, divorced, or separated from the father and has not remarried; or
                (iii) she has remarried but is widowed, divorced, or legally separated from her husband when preference is claimed; and
                (G) the mother of a service-connected permanently and totally disabled veteran, if—
                (i) her husband is totally and permanently disabled;
                (ii) she is widowed, divorced, or separated from the father and has not remarried; or
                (iii) she has remarried but is widowed, divorced, or legally separated from her husband when preference is claimed;
                but does not include applicants for, or members of, the Senior Executive Service, the Defense Intelligence Senior Executive Service, the Senior Cryptologic Executive Service, or the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Drug Enforcement Administration Senior Executive Service;
                (4) except for the purposes of chapters 43 and 75 of this title, “preference eligible” does not include a retired member of the armed forces unless—
                (A) the individual is a disabled veteran; or
                (B) the individual retired below the rank of major or its equivalent; and
                (5) “retired member of the armed forces” means a member or former member of the armed forces who is entitled, under statute, to retired, retirement, or retainer pay on account of service as a member.

                Then you are entitled to relief of the maximum age limitation of 37 years pursuant to title 5 U.S.C. section 3312 preference eligible’s; physical qualifications; waiver.



                TITLE 5 > PART III > Subpart B > CHAPTER 33 > SUBCHAPTER I > § 3312
                § 3312. Preference eligibles; physical qualifications; waiver
                (a) In determining qualifications of a preference eligible for examination for, appointment in, or reinstatement in the competitive service, the Office of Personnel Management or other examining agency shall waive—
                (1) requirements as to age, height, and weight, unless the requirement is essential to the performance of the duties of the position;

                Isabella v. Department of State (Docket No. AT-3443-05-0550-B-1 / AT-0330-05-409-B-1). The panel of judges found that age was not material to the job of criminal investigator, and there for must be waived under veterans preference rules “all non material requirements must be waived”.

                Hope this helps.
                "From now until the end of the world, we and it shall be remembered. We few, we Band of Brothers. For he who sheds his blood with me shall be my brother." - William Shakespeare ("King Henry V")

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Scout0315 View Post

                  Isabella v. Department of State (Docket No. AT-3443-05-0550-B-1 / AT-0330-05-409-B-1). The panel of judges found that age was not material to the job of criminal investigator, and there for must be waived under veterans preference rules “all non material requirements must be waived”.

                  Hope this helps.
                  I just got crapped canned by 2 different agencies for 1811 positions that had no 6c coverage stuff in the original announcements...but amended them after I applied....and specially told me that I was over 37 and was not eligible for the position based on that and that alone....

                  Everyone I have talked to said the above is on a case-by-case by a very few agencies.....and just to deal with the fact that I am a vet over 37....and look for other stuf.....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
                    I just got crapped canned by 2 different agencies for 1811 positions that had no 6c coverage stuff in the original announcements...but amended them after I applied....and specially told me that I was over 37 and was not eligible for the position based on that and that alone....

                    Everyone I have talked to said the above is on a case-by-case by a very few agencies.....and just to deal with the fact that I am a vet over 37....and look for other stuf.....
                    I am 41 and want to be an 1811. The only way I am going to be one is to fight for it. I realize it’s an up hill battle, but the law is on my side.

                    If I were you I would request relief with MSPB. The statues are clear, as I have posted, the case law is clear, as I have cited. Most agencies are unaware of the change; it only became part of the record July 2, 2008. Some agencies just don’t know, or people are stuck on old rules, Title 5 was revised in 2007.

                    This is a personnel choice. If the agencies would follow the rules there would be no need for the MSPB.
                    "From now until the end of the world, we and it shall be remembered. We few, we Band of Brothers. For he who sheds his blood with me shall be my brother." - William Shakespeare ("King Henry V")

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ten08
                      Define canned, Rejected?
                      Yeap....The lady at HR said I had an exceptional resume, quals, and references.....but becaus I was above 37, they could not hire me. End of story.....

                      Oh well....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Scout0315 View Post
                        I am 41 and want to be an 1811. The only way I am going to be one is to fight for it. I realize it’s an up hill battle, but the law is on my side.

                        If I were you I would request relief with MSPB. The statues are clear, as I have posted, the case law is clear, as I have cited. Most agencies are unaware of the change; it only became part of the record July 2, 2008. Some agencies just don’t know, or people are stuck on old rules, Title 5 was revised in 2007.

                        This is a personnel choice. If the agencies would follow the rules there would be no need for the MSPB.
                        I've talked to different HR folks and they said that because of the high number of quailfied candidates out there that are under the age of 37.....It's not worth the fight.....nor do I have the time/money for a fight...

                        There are a few 1811 jobs out there that don't have age requriments plus other psedo FLEO jobs in the 0080/1801/0301 series that I'm not going to worry about it....just look elsewhere as some of the jobs I've seen top out at GS-13 and thats more than some of the 1811 agencies get once they hit Journeyman Level....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am 41 and want to be an 1811. The only way I am going to be one is to fight for it. I realize it’s an up hill battle, but the law is on my side.

                          If I were you I would request relief with MSPB. The statues are clear, as I have posted, the case law is clear, as I have cited. Most agencies are unaware of the change; it only became part of the record July 2, 2008. Some agencies just don’t know, or people are stuck on old rules, Title 5 was revised in 2007.

                          This is a personnel choice. If the agencies would follow the rules there would be no need for the MSPB.
                          I applaud your desire to be an 1811 and I think you should go for it. Just remember that these agencies are actually following the rules - the same rules they've always followed - because there's been no guidance or legislation that specifically tells them to remove the age 37-57 requirement. The law you cited only gives them the ability to waive the limit for veterans, but not everyone. Before they turn their policies completely around, they need specific legislation that alters the retirement sytem that's already in place.

                          If you fight it through MSPB, you probably WILL win, IMO. It's going to take you awhile and probably an attorney: I've dealt with MSPB and they are one of the most non-applicant-friendly organizations in existence, so I would advise an attorney if you deal with them - one who knows their system. Most people will not have the patience or resources to do that, however.

                          My advice would be to pick the agency you really want to work for before you take the MSPB route, because while a favorable decision will get you into that agency, it will keep you locked in there - unless there's another agency that will honor the same waiver (if not, you'd have to go through MSPB again for an agency you may want to transfer to).

                          The agencies who aren't granting these waivers are still following the rules - they're perhaps not being as progressive as they could, but are still acting within the confines of the current system.
                          "Sir, does this mean that Ann Margaret's not coming?"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I talked with a couple of ICE guys today and they were telling me they changed their hiring age to I want to say 40. It would be for the 1802 series. I thought about looking into them, but I don't want go repeat another 3 month academy. One of the guys asked me how much I made at my sheriff's office last year. I told him and he told me he made about $30,000 more than I did last year and he did less work than I do. One of the two guys got out of their academy about 3 months ago and said their PT has changed. He said they have to do an obstacle course and be able to do their mile and half in under 14mins and 30 seconds. He said they do other PT, but that's the only thing they have pass by the end of the academy now.
                            Last edited by nebraska_deputy; 04-03-2009, 03:48 AM.
                            Some people were just dropped on their heads as children more than the rest of us!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ICE academies are not very paramilitary. Its not the Border Patrol. If you want the job and they will hire you then go for it.

                              Comment

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