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Questions: Will a Military Court Marshle Kill my chances in the Civilian Sector?

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  • Questions: Will a Military Court Marshle Kill my chances in the Civilian Sector?

    Back in 2006 I got a Military conviction, Special Court Marshal, for Attempted Insurance Fraud, Conspiracy, and False official Statements. I got 3 months confinement in the military. I was not discharged as a result of the conviction, and as far as my unit and JAG told me over the last year it was a Misdemeanor. I am Still a SPC and still a MP with the unit but the unit restricted me to desk work and I am no longer allowed to hold a patrol slot with the unit. And I know it sounds bad, but i always felt the fact that it didn't get discharged or loose my MOS that I was doing okay.

  • #2
    I am by no mean an expert, but this can not look good for you. Insurance fraud in the real world in most states is a felony conviction and this would hinder your chances on getting any kind of job. As you would need someone that was prior military that is in a civilian LE position now that could answer this better.

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    • #3
      Agreed, I was told tho by more then one Legal officer, that the fact that the Prosecution asked for less then 12 months made it look better and not a Felony. Let me ask you this would your department hire a military vet that got a honorable discharge and had that in his military jacket?

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      • #4
        You were essentialy placed in jail (military confinement) correct? And what you were arrested/charged with is not something any LE agency will look at lightly. Even if you get an Honorable Discharge, there will be codes, etc plus your background as to what occurred while you were in the military.

        Even thought you are still at your current MOS, not being able to complete your duty functions will and currently does not look good.

        I will say that you will have a very difficult time getting hired in any LE agency. Best of luck.
        "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

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        • #5
          It's not looking good.
          Maybe with time and a dedicated effort to pull your life into shape, in 7-10 years you might have a long shot.

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          • #6
            . . . False official Statements . . .
            You were essentially convicted of lying. If you were ever a witness in court that would be used to impeach your testimony. This would be a huge problem for any LE agency, since your testimony in court would be useless.

            BTW, when referencing the military courts it's "martial" not "marshal" or "marshle."

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            • #7
              If you dont mind me asking

              Were you planning on pursuing a career in civilian LE? Or making a career change?

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              • #8
                Will a Military Court Marshal Kill my chances in the Civilian Sector?

                Yours will...
                It's called Moral Turpitude. Find another profession!
                "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" -George Orwell

                "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing diapers." - Blues Brothers

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                • #9
                  I fear that it will be a big problem for you because of a court decision known as Brady v. Maryland, 83 S. Ct. 1194 (1963).

                  Under Brady, evidence affecting the credibility of the police officer as a witness may be exculpatory evidence and must be given to the defense during discovery. Evidence that the officer has had a sustained finding of untruthfulness in his personnel file is considered exculpatory to the defense. Apparently even your own organization recognizes this by virtue of the fact that they have restricted you to desk duty, where the likelihood you being involved in anything that you would have to testify to in court is minimal.

                  In my state, district attorneys now maintain Brady databases and are obliged to notify defense attorneys about the identities witness officers in a given case who have sustained dishonesty complaints. Because a sustained dishonesty complaint effectively renders an officer useless as a witness, the usual penalty for dishonesty is termination.

                  Wit this in mind, the likelihood of a police department hiring someone they know will not be a credible witness under Brady is pretty slim.

                  For further info on Brady see http://policechiefmagazine.org/magaz...ssue_id=102003
                  Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by L-1 View Post
                    I fear that it will be a big problem for you because of a court decision known as Brady v. Maryland, 83 S. Ct. 1194 (1963).

                    Under Brady, evidence affecting the credibility of the police officer as a witness may be exculpatory evidence and must be given to the defense during discovery. Evidence that the officer has had a sustained finding of untruthfulness in his personnel file is considered exculpatory to the defense. Apparently even your own organization recognizes this by virtue of the fact that they have restricted you to desk duty, where the likelihood you being involved in anything that you would have to testify to in court is minimal.

                    In my state, district attorneys now maintain Brady databases and are obliged to notify defense attorneys about the identities witness officers in a given case who have sustained dishonesty complaints. Because a sustained dishonesty complaint effectively renders an officer useless as a witness, the usual penalty for dishonesty is termination.

                    Wit this in mind, the likelihood of a police department hiring someone they know will not be a credible witness under Brady is pretty slim.

                    For further info on Brady see http://policechiefmagazine.org/magaz...ssue_id=102003
                    Thanks for all your responses, false official statement, was thrown on because any documents that I would of filed or created (one affidavit involved with the insurance company), and the judge only allowed that because I use a on post notary, they where unable to prove my filing of the stolen vehicle was false in any why.

                    Maybe posting a background of what happened might help me out.

                    I was young and newer to the unit, I met a guy who was getting out of the unit and the military at this time i didn't know his History or that he was a busted for possession of a controlled substance, I let him barrow my car while I was on leave for the Holidays (2004 Christmas), I came back and he told me the car was stolen. Of course I went to the unit filed a report for a missing vehicle. 3 weeks later CID pulls me tells me the guy rolled over on me and is now telling them that I set the whole thing up, and I aided him in stealing my own vehicle. I immediately called the insurance company and canceled my claim. CID then cuts a deal with him to have him testify against me to allow him to avoid a jail sentence and dishonorable discharge. In the End there was no Evidence that ANY Part of his fabricated story was true other then I had given him the keys, and knew he had the vehicle at the time it was allegedly stolen. CID tried to get the FBI and local Police to seek prosecution and from what my SGT told me, "Everyone told CID they're Crazy there is nothing but his word against a known drug dealer."

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                    • #11
                      I'm no expert, but I don't recall the UCMJ making a distinction between a felony and misdemeanor. What's going to be the potential DQ for you is the nature of the charge and specifications you were convicted under. My colleague mentioned the Brady Doctrine to you. This Doctrine has nationwide implications, and LE agencies are very much aware of it. One of the most basic and vital assets an Officer can bring to a court proceding is his integrity. While not desiring to question your integrity on a personal basis, the Court Martial charges and conviction make integrity issues a matter of record. The Court Martial and subsequent conviction/confinement would need to be disclosed on your Personal History Statement or Polygraph Questionaire. These issues will remain serious obstacles to any LE career.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MP Robert View Post
                        Thanks for all your responses, false official statement, was thrown on because any documents that I would of filed or created (one affidavit involved with the insurance company), and the judge only allowed that because I use a on post notary, they where unable to prove my filing of the stolen vehicle was false in any why.

                        Maybe posting a background of what happened might help me out.

                        I was young and newer to the unit, I met a guy who was getting out of the unit and the military at this time i didn't know his History or that he was a busted for possession of a controlled substance, I let him barrow my car while I was on leave for the Holidays (2004 Christmas), I came back and he told me the car was stolen. Of course I went to the unit filed a report for a missing vehicle. 3 weeks later CID pulls me tells me the guy rolled over on me and is now telling them that I set the whole thing up, and I aided him in stealing my own vehicle. I immediately called the insurance company and canceled my claim. CID then cuts a deal with him to have him testify against me to allow him to avoid a jail sentence and dishonorable discharge. In the End there was no Evidence that ANY Part of his fabricated story was true other then I had given him the keys, and knew he had the vehicle at the time it was allegedly stolen. CID tried to get the FBI and local Police to seek prosecution and from what my SGT told me, "Everyone told CID they're Crazy there is nothing but his word against a known drug dealer."
                        In spite of how you explain things, it doesn't change the fact that you were still (according to your own words) convicted of Attempted Insurance Fraud, Conspiracy, and False official Statements. It's the conviction that counts and not how you explain it. This is particularly so when it comes to offenses that call your honesty and integrity into question. Consider that every time you went to court on a case you might spend 10 minutes testifying as to what you perceived as a police officer and two hours defending your past in front of the jury to defense attorney questions. This places your credibility in question and makes you useless as a witness.

                        FWIW, in my agency (and most others) it is grounds for DQ if conduct in your history reflects a lack of integrity, honesty, accuracy, or good judgment. With us, your conviction would bounce you out on any one, if not all of those criteria.
                        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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                        • #13
                          DO your 20 years and retire and you might have a long shot after that with an honorable discharge.

                          What you should be trying to find out is if you can get your conviction overturned somehow. Then you may have a better shot. With the things you are saying you were convicted of you have no chance in the immediate future.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BPD99 View Post
                            DO your 20 years and retire and you might have a long shot after that with an honorable discharge.

                            What you should be trying to find out is if you can get your conviction overturned somehow. Then you may have a better shot. With the things you are saying you were convicted of you have no chance in the immediate future.
                            You know the one thing I have on my side, If I don't and won't take no for an answer. Overturned would be a Presidential Pardon, or something from the Joint Chiefs i have the list, of people that can Pardon, I've tried using JAG and the SJA to get it overturned ona few technicalities but they have refused so far to review it.

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                            • #15
                              Even if this is possible, which most likely it will not happen, this is still in your background which cannot be taken away.

                              For a LE career, I would say it's a no-go. You may get hired in corrections, maybe. But I would not rely on a job as LEO once you get out of the military. Best of luck though.
                              "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

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